There are many people who talk about the need to be successful online yourself before you teach others how to be successful. But is that really necessary?
Do you have to DO something in order to teach it? Or can a good teacher teach anything?
I’ve given this a lot of thought – and had a lot of arguments with a lot of “experts” about this. But as an Instructional Designer I can tell you…
A good teacher can teach just about ANYTHING!
Argue with me if you like, but let’s consider the evidence.
[gn_list style=”star”]- Have you ever known a teacher who was reassigned to a new topic that they didn’t know about? It happens all the time in schools that are having to rearrange staff.
- Did that teacher (if they were truly a great educator) jump in, learn the topic, and end up being one of the best teachers in that topic by the end of the school year? Sure they did!
- Have you ever seen a professional coach who didn’t play a day of professional ball still go on to coach a team to a championship? Sure you have!
A great teacher CAN teach just about anything.
Now let’s look at the other perspective…Can someone who can DO something teach someone else to do it? Not necessarily.
[gn_list style=”star”]- Have you ever had a straight A student try to tutor someone else? Just because they can do it themselves doesn’t mean that they can pick apart the process, understand how the student is thinking, diagnose what needs to change, then be patient enough to help them change.
- What about a star athlete with lots of natural ability? Are they able to understand why someone else is not equally coordinated, find out how to compensate for their lack of ability, and teach them how to enjoy the sport? Not without a lot of frustration!
And so it comes down to building a business and who you choose to learn from. Does someone have to have been successful in building a business themselves before they can teach someone else to do it?
Or could someone who is a great teacher learn the basics, implement some of the tactics to be sure they thoroughly understand them in order to teach, then show you how to build your online business?
Think about that for a minute, then let me know what YOU think below…
I think yes and no would be a correct answer to your question. Someone that has never built a business of their own would have a hard time teaching how to build an ENTIRE business…but could be very successful in teaching many of the specific aspects needed. Pieces to the entire puzzle. So if you have never built a business I think It would be hard to say to someone “build your business like this and you will be successful”. It would be more accurate to teach elements of business that someone can use to make a business more successful. Hope that made sense…
Interesting. I think I would agree. They might be good on individual tactics, but the overall strategy might be missing. Some things are only learned through experience – as I think we’ve all found out at one time or another.
Jeannette your topic today is certainly thought-provoking! I know people who are natural-born teachers. Sometimes I am one of them; sometimes I’m not (if it’s something at which I really am not proficient at all.) There are things about which I am passionate, and for those? I can “turn it on” if I feel like it or if it serves my audience.
The late Thomas Leonard was often heard to admonish that “if you want to learn something, teach it” — which was a rather daunting position to take if you’re, say, just starting a business.
On the other side of this argument, I have to admit that when it comes to whom I choose for my mentors and trainers, I seek out people who have already mastered what I want to learn. I buy coaching from people who are terrific at what they do — and who also love to teach it. So for me as a consumer, I prefer to hire mastery rather than someone who is entertaining or even “good” at teaching the subject I want to learn.
But here’s the rub: a truly awesome teacher’s content and delivery would never reveal that they had not mastered the topic themselves!
From the consumer side, it’s who do I trust and believe — and who gets me the results I want with the least friction or confusion. From the delivery side, it’s a whole different equation; I have to prove myself and only make claims for which I KNOW I can produce results — and hopefully offer adequate proof of it..
As marketers, especially in the age of social media, we had just better be prepared to meet the expectations of our audience or be doomed. That has to include being able to teach a topic, if we claim that’s what we offer.
Another way to put this is that there is no more “hiding”. Either you can do what you say or you can’t. No more hyped claims — and honestly? No more scam artists in the digital age. Integrity matters even more the bigger the internet grows, no matter what vehicle is being used to deliver it.
I think that’s really the bottom line to this discussion. Do you agree?
Wow, Nancy. I knew you wouldn’t post an easy answer. So as Tavis Smiley might say “let’s unpack that”.
I agree. A great teacher would never let on that they didn’t care about the topic or that they didn’t feel confident about it. That’s part of the great teaching aspect.
I really like your take on social media’s role in exposing the fakes online. It would be almost impossible to remain a fake and still participate in social media, since there are so many opportunities for exposure. Yet I see social media as punishing those who are truly introverts and prefer to remain private. Certainly those of us of “a certain age” were taught not to reveal some things in public, so it makes us uncomfortable to do so in social media. So that can’t be the sole criteria.
I judge those I choose as teachers and mentors on the results that they help create in me. To me it doesn’t matter how masterful they are – if they don’t inspire ME to action, it’s just a performance I’m watching.
And naturally before I listen to them, I trust that what they say and tell me to do is correct. So I agree. Trust is really important.
What a fascinating topic, Jeanette! I’m a natural born teacher, too. I homeschooled my children through high school, and I heard this comment all the time: “I could NEVER teach my children! I don’t know all the subject matter.” I discovered that I didn’t need to know it all. We all became learners, and I didn’t have to be an expert – just had to know where to go to get the information.
I think I’ve approached the business training a little differently, in that I have felt that in order to have credibility, I should have some success in whatever I am teaching. So, I moved along a little slower. Could I teach an entire WordPress course? Of course, I could! But am I an expert? Probably not..but I now know WAY more than most people do. I know you’re probably laughing, thinking about our time in LA at that follow up meeting where I didn’t even have my blog set up because I couldn’t figure it out. You had me up and rolling before the afternoon was over.
You’ve got me thinking…maybe I shouldn’t put off teaching subjects in which I’m not really an expert, because if I have a working knowledge, and I have the teaching skills, and I know where to get the expert information, wouldn’t people still benefit? I think the answer is YES!
I find that good oursourcers are a godsend. For example, if I’m not an expert in XXX, I can still take a client, outsource the project to an expert, oversee it, and we all come out ahead.
I just know I have a responsibility to any client to offer expert material or services and deliver the results in a compelling way. I can DO that! Yessiree, I can!
Jeanne – I think one of the aspects of being a great teacher is being a great learner. And as soon as you admit that you are learning along with the students (or your children) it truly opens the dialogue.
Like you, I’m always torn about what to teach – and when. I can wait until I master it, or I can teach it as I go along, knowing that I know more than the people who are taking the course. My fear though is with the people who are encouraged to set themselves up as Internet marketing teachers – when they’ve barely gotten their blog set up. (I’m so proud of how far you’ve come and so quickly!)
The danger of offering your teaching too early comes in overselling it. If someone says they are an “internet strategist” then I assume they know a LOT about a LOT of topics having to do with the internet. But if they say they are teaching “basic wordpress” then I assume they know how to set up a basic wordpress site. The key is in how you advertise it.
You, as a service provider, are in a unique position – because indeed you don’t need to know how to do any of it. But you do need to know how to hire someone who does, how to manage the project, and how to judge that the finished product meets standards. So in that sense, you need what I call the “business owner’s overview” and project management expertise.
I feel both are valid. You can teach from knowledge and from experience. Each requires a different approach, but it’s not a big issue to me.
For example, there are great NHL hockey coaches who have not been NHL players. And there are great coaches who have been NHL players.
In one approach, you get trust and credibility by demonstrating results people who learned under you achieved. In the other, your proof comes from the fact you’ve been there and done it.
Interesting. I do agree that some coaches were great players and others never played. And of course we’ve seen where great players tried to become coaches and just failed miserably.
I think it does become important to recognize which side they are coming from. And look at the proof and offer in terms of that.
Thanks for your thoughts!
As I have said for many years now, when it comes to learning (online) business, the real learning is in the DOING.
I agree that a good teacher can learn the academic information and provide a “basics” training to start people on their way. But a teacher who only knows her topic from books and other people’s courses, is only teaching theory. She does not really know what she is teaching. For some students, that may be enough to get then to the point of DOING (and almost immediately surpassing their teacher).
It reminds me of an experience I had many years ago – I was asked to be on a panel of entrepreneurs for a state college entrepreneurial training video that was to be distributed to all the state colleges. The professor was teaching how to start a successful (brick and mortar) business.
Very quickly it was apparent to the three of us on the panel that the professor had never started or owned his own business in the real world. What he was teaching was pure textbook theory. Honestly, I felt what he was doing was putting his eager students at a big disadvantage and increasing the chances that they would quit in their first year, like at least 80% of new business owners do. He was giving them false expectations, even though his heart was in the right place.
How many online training programs do that?
On the other hand, I also agree with you that there are those who have “done it” but who are not good teachers and do not have the ability to easily transfer their real-life knowledge to others.
My conclusion is this. If you want to teach a subject for which you have only academic knowledge, teach a course where you invite others to join you as you TAKE ACTION on the knowledge you have and learn the DOING part together! You play the role of class leader instead of expert. That is both honest and appealing to those who are serious about taking action.
And I definitely agree with Nancy that with social media, we need to maintain complete honesty and integrity in all the information we publish and sell. Otherwise, our reputation will be mud.
That’s the view from here. 🙂
Oh, Gabrielle, I like your perspective of class leader versus expert. When you consider it, there are really very few “experts” – someone who knows EVERYTHING about a topic.
On the other hand being a class leader provides a more collaborative atmosphere. In fact, in going back to something Jeanne said above – admitting that you are learning along with the students is a healthy approach. And as I think about it, I think I like to fall into that Class Leader role – because we are ALWAYS learning along with the students.
So thanks for that. Insightful as always!
I love this topic because it is going to allow me to vent a bit. During my three years in IM I have been told over and over by a “teacher” that I am not qualified to teach anything because I have not been on the Internet long enough nor have I done much the classes I have taken. Interesting, coming from a person with maybe seven years under their belt. I have had an online business since 1996 and that business has been responsible for at least 50% of my family income since then. Granted, it is not in the Internet Marketing arena, but it certainly falls into the writing, publishing, marketing, speaking, back of room products, consulting, product sales, client instruction and personal marketing – so that 16 years qualifies me to do something in the way of teaching or developing products.
I agree with you, I don’t think you have to “do” in order to teach. Some of the best athletes in the world reach their perfect score because they were trained by a coach that knew how to get them to their peak performance, not necessarily a coach that had won gold medals years ago.
My theory is a simple one, if you want to know something, learn it. If is creates a passion in your soul – teach it.
Holly – I like your conclusion “If you want to know something, learn it.It it creates a passion in your soul – teach it.” Nice.
I’m so sorry you had anyone try to steal your dream. I’ve known you for several years now and know that you have built a VERY successful business, serving a specialty market. In fact, I think I’ve tried to talk you into expanding that market, health permitting.
You’re right. No one has the right to tell you you should not teach something – unless they are certifying you in their proprietary method. Short of that, ignore them and follow your passion. You have so much to offer people, online and offline, you need to get your message out there!
Good for you in taking on this topic. To be sure, it is possible to argue both sides, but that’s not what is so important in my view. It is that the argument that “you can’t teach, you can’t lead, you can’t even say boo if you haven’t done it” is way too prevalent and it hurts way too many people. You are right when you say that experts are not necessarily good teachers is true, but it goes even deeper. As you know, Jeanette, sometimes an expert is unable to write a good procedure or provide a good overview, and that could even apply to one who is a good teacher, but they may make to many assumptions about the task, or just be too close to it to understand the big picture.
Sometimes I think there are too few who can provide the big picture. The result is VERY qualified experts who have “done it” nut who, because they specialize in one or two topics (video or Facebook, or conversion, or copy writing, etc) lead the less informed to believe THAT is the key. That is the gold. When in fact that same marketer does not succeed on that specialty, but on knowing how to put it all together.
I could write much more, but just want to thank you for taking a stand though it may not be popular with some.
Richard, thanks for offering your perspective. Always a well-thought-out one for sure.
Is the “have to do it to teach it” an attitude specific to those who market online? Or is it more prevalent? Does it only apply to the make-money niche (online marketing, MLM, real estate)? I think that definitely frames the discussion, since we are involved in online marketing in one way or another.
I often think it is so prevalent in the Internet marketing niche because so many people who have a product to sell have ONLY been successful in that one approach. So they claim that success and make it appear to be required in order to learn it.
In the offline world no one shows their financials. No one “brags” on their achievements. It’s generally who else have they consulted for, spoken for, etc. The results are generally proprietary information. So there is no blantant “I’ve done it therefore you should listen to me.”
And I agree about the big picture. Again, if you look at offers in the Internet Marketing arena, they are generally small slices of the pie. With the exception of comprehensive programs, such as the Online Success Incubator (shameless plug – 🙂 ) you never see the full picture – probably so few people have worked a broad enough arena to be able to advise you on multiple business models.
And as you say…we could go on and on about this. I look forward to continued discussions along this line.
Oh Jeanette, I am SO glad you brought up this topic!
First, like many people, I have made the mistake of thinking I should hire mentors who had become wildly successful. What I’ve found is that (a) many don’t know WHY they’re successful; (b) some don’t realize that at least part of their success was due to factors that are not applicable to anyone else; and (c) the learner isn’t in the same place as the teacher: “here’s what I did” makes a great story but lousy coaching.
Second, we can look to sports for examples.
Cynthia Cooper was one of the most successful WNBA basketball players but she lasted one season coaching a losing WNBA team.
Pat Summitt was not a great player; today she probably wouldn’t have made varsity. But I probably don’t have to tell anyone about her success as a coach.
Geno Auriemma, her rival, also was a less than spectacular basketball player – but an awesome coach.
I just follow the women’s hoops, but you can probably find examples among the men as well. You will find a few examples of great players turned coaches, such as Dawn Staley and Anne Donovan. But far more players never achieve the same stardom as coaches that they enjoyed as players.
I also have evidence that I am a much greater coach than I am a player, at just about anything. For instance, my first site was about career planning. Now, when it comes to corporate careers, I’m so maverick I can’t get hired for most jobs my clients have; if I did I might last about a week. I’m just not corporate material and hiring managers can tell in about five minutes.
But just a few weeks ago, I got a call from someone who’s a senior manager at a telecom (they probably run the cell phone in your pocket). I’d coached him through a career challenge a few years ago; he was coming back for more as he advanced to the next stage. He felt that I’d really grasped his situation and helped him so much he still remembered me.
Many other career clients have thanked me for helping them out of difficult corporate challenges.
Similarly, I’m a terrific coach for people who want to grow their businesses. One reason is that I don’t have personal qualities to do things I know my clients need to do. Another reason is that I know what should be done and how it should be done, but I either can’t or won’t do it. I also have perspective because I’ve talked to so many people.
So frankly, I think I’m a *better* coach than many people who made a gazillion dollars. When I work with clients, I don’t talk about what I did. I talk about the client’s situation and what the client should do. I worked with one client who had a bubbly personality and a wonderful appearance. I encouraged her to do a minimum on the website and get out and talk to people; she’s a natural! She can do things I can’t.
Sadly many brilliant marketers (who are mediocre or even harmful coaches) set the criteria of “walking the talk.” I recently talked to “Mary” who was paying $25K to someone who earns a few million a year because she wants to do the same. Mary forgets that her role model got started in a particular city well over 10 years ago, with specific contacts, experience, looks and style. Mary can’t do what her mentor did, no matter how hard she tries. And I know for a fact her mentor is recommending that people follow her own path.
If you think about it, we don’t ask other service providers to share our experiences. My friend who’s a cardiologist has no heart disease or family history. Therapists don’t have to “walk the talk.”
Great question!
Cathy – I didn’t know you were a womens’ basketball fan – among other talents. You are so right about coaching versus playing. We’ve seen it happen again and again.
Likewise we see great college players, for example, go on to the pros and not be able to handle the pressure, increased speed, and other challenges. They don’t seem to be able to ramp up.
As a highly successful coach, I’d say your expertise IS coaching. So as an expert in that topic, you are practicing it rather than teaching it.
And I so agree with prior experience having an impact on someone’s success. For example, Armand Morin is both a friend and a mentor. When I sit in awe and listen to him create a video selling a product off the top of his head, I have to remind myself that he was a top salesman for vacuum cleaners door-to-door for many years. He possesses skills that I will never have.
The skill comes in his ability to encourage me to use my gifts to build my business. We have had a very different path getting to where we are. And the great teachers and coaches honor your path – and help you get further.
That appears to be the talent that you have for working with your corporate clients. While you do not walk in their shoes, you can see the path they need to take and recognize the skills they can use to get there.
And I love your cardiologist example! Great contribution. Thanks.
Cathy you just summed it all up beautifully in your last sentence!
You don’t need to have endured a heart problem in order to be a cardiologist! Love it! I will definitely use that! Thanks 🙂
Me, too, Lauren! Glad you came over to join the conversation. I always know you have thoughts to contribute.
There are gifted successful professionals in most any field that don’t have a clue as why it all came together for them. A good teacher or coach can often diagnose and analyze the many parts to generate a path to success for an average individual to follow and accomplish similar successful results.
So true, Dale! As an Instructional Designer that has always been my joy – figuring out how an expert does something, then outlining the map so that someone else can replicate that.
Have you outlined what it takes to run a successful horse ranch? Seems like that would be a skill that others would love to learn – particularly before they spend years learning what you already know!
That is something I will have to consider, as it is certainly a challenge in today’s market, Thanks for the insight
Jeanette.
I love that you point out that just because you are personally good at something doesn’t mean you can teach it.
Here in AZ we experienced a great example of that. Anyone who knows anything about Hickey knows that Wayne Gretsky is (still) considered to be one of the best players ever. So a few years ago when he announced that he was going to be the head coach for the Phoenix Coyotes everyone was very excited.
But during his time with the Coyotes they never even made the playoffs, they did very poorly in their division standings and overall the team went downhill.
But last year he stepped down and we got a new coach. Suddenly (with mostly the same players) we won the division and made it to the final round almost making it to the Stanley Cup game.
This is a classic example of someone who is considered the best at what they do, not being able to teach it to others. (He is a great guy, just not meant to be a coach I think.)
Great post, very thought provoking.
Cindy
Thanks for weighing in on this, Cindy. That’s a great example of Gretsky – truly the best at what he did when he played. But as you say – that didn’t necessarily translate into coaching.
I think that doing, teaching, and coaching are separate skill sets. Sometimes you find someone who combines them all, but it’s rare. Often you have a great teacher, who isn’t really a great coach. Or sometimes you’ll have a coach who isn’t a great teacher.
The important thing is finding the balance that works for you – in your business at this time.
I’m so glad to have stumbled onto this article via Cathy Goodwin’s Real Copywriting Facebook page! What an intelligent collection of comments on a subject that has been on my mind lately.
There’s no question experience helps, both first-hand experience in the subject and experience in teaching. But more powerful than either alone is having the two together: experience in teaching that subject. Only with that experience can you learn the types of obstacles and questions that crop up. With experience teaching that subject, you start to notice common misconceptions or happen upon a great way to explain something that suddenly brought ahas to people who had been stuck.
So if you take the person who knows how to teach and the person who knows how to do and put them in a teaching situation, both will be missing the piece of experience in teaching that subject, so I’d argue that neither can claim expert status as a teacher.